Aussie Speed Limits & Road Safety
I got into a debate with somebody about speed limits and road safety, where the argument was "going 1km/h increases the risk of accidents", to which I opposed on some grounds. The following is all based on personal experiences and opinion, however I'd love to see some research based around all of this stuff put together.
Looking at a lot of drivers around the place, little to moderate speed increase has very little to do with how safe a person is driving. I would put money down that I could drive faster than a lot of regular folk out there yet more safely (had a license for 13 years and never had an accident - avoided many due to other drivers' incompetence). Other factors such as road quality, the car itself, situational awareness and of course driver skill (amongst many other factors) are more to blame. When I was in Sydney, I was shocked to see that in some areas, speed limits change roughly every block (ranging from 40-60km/h). How can that possibly be safe when you're constantly looking for the next speed sign and watching your speedo? Mark Skaife put forward a proposal to raise highway speed limits to 140km/h for reasons similar to the German view on road safety (see here with video caradvice.com.au article). Anyway, the girl I was having the debate with rejected every issue raised and finally concluded that "every k over is a killer". What are your thoughts on the matter? Is it really speed? Is it driver training? Is it infrastructure? Should speed limits be reviewed? tl;dr - Is speeding really the problem or something else, and why? Also dragons and ninjas. |
02:54pm 02/12/11 Permalink
HERE WE GO!!! BUCKLE UP.
I am all for 140k speed limits on highways. |
02:56pm 02/12/11 Permalink
02:58pm 02/12/11 Permalink
decent roads and better driver education are the key to higher speed limits.
but most governments are incapable of providing either. |
03:01pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Agree on raising the limit on highways for sure. Highways are straight stretches of road, you can see for miles, there's no intersections, you just sit in your lane. There's no houses next to the highway with kids darting out.
However if you drive a s***box like me then it starts to s*** itself over 110km/hr anyway which is where skaife was saying we need less s*** cars on the road. It's fine in germany where everyone drives new mercedes and bmw's on well maintained roads. |
03:09pm 02/12/11 Permalink
I crashed doing under the speed limit, I failed at driver attention.
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03:09pm 02/12/11 Permalink
harsher testing,
there seems to be a feeling that driving is a right, when there are some drivers on the road that can't even walk in a shopping centre without bumping into people or narrowly missing them, If you can't guide 80kgs of you around without problems, them sure as s*** 1500+kgs is going to be a problem |
03:10pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Oh one other thing. Most people can't catch a tennis ball or do anything that requires the slightest bit of eye-hand coordination. Yet we give them licenses.
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03:10pm 02/12/11 Permalink
infrastructure is a massive problem here, half the time you are watching out for potholes that are EVERYFUNKINGWHERE, the other time is split up between changing speed limits signs, idiot drivers and cyclists that think they own the road.. then the left over 1% you have you get to concerntrate on the road rules..
that f***** change ALL the time and what response do you get from the police when you say you have never heard of a rule: "get up to date with your road rules" So if these road rules are changing all the time, and we need to know them, then whey are we not issued out a letter about it... its good enough to issue letters saying we owe them money for speeding fines, parking tickets, rego renewal... but they cant take time to inform us of these ever changing laws.. last edited by Sc00bs at 15:38:05 02/Dec/11 |
03:31pm 02/12/11 Permalink
I think there needs to be some sort of spacial awareness test,
scoobs, honestly I dont find the drivers that bad, most of the d*******s are easy to predict and you can drive accordingly, it come down to been aware of the other road users, and driving in a manner that means you can avoid their stupidity, or they can clearly see you, (drivers than sit in the 3/4 rear of other cars are an example) as for potholes, big whoop, get a car that doesn't have low profile tire that require a paint brush to change and you wont have an issue, there is more of a problem with d******* avoided 1cm deep pot holes in massive 4wds, than any damage cause from hitting 99% of the potholes on the road |
03:39pm 02/12/11 Permalink
, get a car that doesn't have low profile tire that require a paint brush to change and you wont have an issue, lol, are you f***** serious... your fix to the potholes is dont buy certain cars... yeah thats the best idea ever. Why do i pay rego? doesnt that money go to road upkeep? or do i just pay it so i can continuously pay for new wheels and wheel alignments due to f***ed up roads while others cruise around in their 4wd enjoying the off road driving conditions. last edited by Sc00bs at 15:50:20 02/Dec/11 |
03:46pm 02/12/11 Permalink
scoobs, common sense would say the road in QLD have not been billiard smooth, and on the very high use older roads (like gympie and ipswich and connecting) have had problems for a long time, that said a) the pothole issue isn't in all honesty that bad for an area of about 50kms around bris city, or gold coast city,
if you live on a road, or the road on your commute is s*** house, don't spend money on after market rims/low profile tyres, then b**** about it! just about all the new cars, and the cars sold in the last 10 years would have come with stock rims that would easily cope with the current roads, |
03:56pm 02/12/11 Permalink
To the OP, it probably depends on the context, but statistically speaking your friend is basically correct with the 'every K over is a killer' line. If everyone in Australia was permitted to drive 1km faster everywhere, there would be a proportional increase in accidents, that simple point shouldn't really be debatable. It obviously doesn't apply in every circumstance, but overall, that's how it is.
All the things you have mentioned are entirely valid variables, but you need to remember that you're not just applying these to yourself and your own experience, you have to account for every driver on the road and cater entirely to the lowest common denominator. Yes, it's not good to have constant speed limit fluctuations, but it's also not good to apply the same limits to all built up areas or all arterial roads because there are often many other contextual factors to consider such as gradient and visibility. |
03:58pm 02/12/11 Permalink
To the OP, it probably depends on the context, but statistically speaking your friend is basically correct with the 'every K over is a killer' line. If everyone in Australia was permitted to drive 1km faster everywhere, there would be a proportional increase in accidents, that simple point shouldn't really be debatable. It obviously doesn't apply in every circumstance, but overall, that's how it is. . provide stats to back that up coz imo it's totally debatable. imo if everyone drove 1kph over each posted limit i doubt there would be a noticeable difference in the accident rate. |
04:05pm 02/12/11 Permalink
If everyone in Australia was permitted to drive 1km faster everywhere, there would be a proportional increase in accidents, that simple point shouldn't really be debatable.how's that? |
04:10pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Many people who seem to complain about people driving fast are in the same group as people who:
* Indicate to turn a direction, then veer the other way first before turning * Merge lanes without indicating * Merge lanes without checking their blind spot * Drive slow in the right lane * In a 2+ lane road, will sit beside somebody driving the same speed, when people are trying to pass * Leave a massive gap behind the person in front at lights/stop signs, blocking a turning lane while people behind are trying to turn * Sit as far left in a lane as possible at lights/stop signs, blocking a turning lane while people behind are trying to turn etc. etc. etc. I'm sure there's a lot more accidents and road rage that happen from things like the above issues rather than a few km/h over a speed limit (pure speculation) |
04:11pm 02/12/11 Permalink
more policing, however not with speed cameras, (you get pulled over at the time of offence, chances are you'll behave more in future, getting a fine two weeks after the fact is painful, but many a company cars snapped by a camera has let a driver escape a loss of points!)
a restructuring of driver training, the current system is crap, and is more likely to pass on poor habits, or incorrect out dated information (from parents, or older drivers during the learning phase) looking at not only the ability to drive the car according to the road rules, but also teaching people car control, and little things, like how to brake in an emergency, wet road driving and how it differs in different cars (lend mine car to a mate last week, and that is was the first time he had driving a rear wheel drive car in the wet, scared the s*** out of him, and he thought that the car was faulty, not his driving style) as for road worthy tests, more policing would start to address that a far bit, bringing to drivers attention to basic things like, your brake lights are out, here is a notice to repair, no fine unless you don't get this fix in 2 weeks, tyres are getting a little low, you'll need to get them replaced soon (and a record of that interaction) would start to get people and their cars upto speed also start fining people for the trivial s***, yes people will b****, but if it is wholly enforced and fairly the change will happen |
04:14pm 02/12/11 Permalink
If everyone in Australia was permitted to drive 1km faster everywhere, there would be a proportional increase in accidents, that simple point shouldn't really be debatable. There is also research out there (cbf finding it right now) that shows that as people drive faster, they naturally pay more attention to what's happening because of the potential danger. |
04:15pm 02/12/11 Permalink
research would also find that looking down (at say a speedo) is less safe that looking at the road and surrounds
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04:19pm 02/12/11 Permalink
there's actually been quite a bit of research into this issue from an economics perspective and there have been many statistical analyses conducted on the effects of speed limits.
one of the seminal papers in this area was by a guy called Charles Lave (citation below). his results suggest that the real value in speed limits (i.e. safety benefits) comes from the coordination effect of speed limits, and not from actually preventing drivers from going above a specific speed. he argued that the most significant dangers come from road users driving at varying speeds, not necessarily road users driving at high speeds. e.g. if all cars travelled at 140km/h they would potentially be safer than if some travelled at 110, some at 90 and some at 130. this would imply that slow drivers can be just as dangerous as fast drivers (which i would tend to agree with). i'm sure there's been plenty of subsequent research into this issue as well. Lave, Charles A., "Speeding, Coordination, and the 55-MPH Limit," American Economic Review, volume 75, number 5, December 1985, pp. 1159-64. |
04:21pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Can't wait until the human element is removed from cars. I reckon the biggest problem is people are f*****g stupid and tend to forget that they hold the lives of their passengers and other motorists in their hands when they are behind the wheel.
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04:33pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Speed limits are very political, many roads are engineered for higher speeds than what they have posted.
I think a lot of roads could have a higher limit safely. I also think that complacent drivers are by far the biggest cause of concern on the roads. |
04:40pm 02/12/11 Permalink
^It's a lot easier to judge time when everybody is going the same speed.
If you went around a corner and saw a cop car ahead of you, then come to the next corner and saw another police car, would you speed around the next corner going sideways? Anyone else notice that older car's and more sports based car's are easier to keep at a set speed after a short period of time so you can just glance down every now and then at the speed limit, whereas newer car's tend to go up and down a lot more (I'm talking unfamiliar car's, not your daily)? |
04:45pm 02/12/11 Permalink
ment4l,
yeah i've noticed that to a degree, cars that have little noise coming into the cabin (due to sound deading, low rev revs, etc) make you feel more removed, so take away some of the sense of speed, (the noise, the vibrations, etc) |
05:04pm 02/12/11 Permalink
I make my own rules!!!!!11 This is why I have very little points remaining :/
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05:10pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Yeah, I meant more accelerator response, go up a hill, push the pedal down a little, go down a hill lift your foot and keep the speed the same with ease.
I know what you mean though, I had a Jag which you wouldn't have heard a marching band next to you if you had the windows up and the engine purred very quietly unless you put your foot down. I've asked the passenger what speed they think they're going, they say oh feels about 80, um nope 180. |
05:12pm 02/12/11 Permalink
* Indicate to turn a direction, then veer the other way first before turning i still facepalm whenever i see someone enter a round about with a right indicator on and 1/4 of the way around indicate left and go straight ahead through the around about pretty sure there was a couple of numpties on here that do this and were trying to explain to me the retard logic behind this last edited by paveway at 17:15:53 02/Dec/11 last edited by paveway at 17:22:58 02/Dec/11 |
05:13pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Wasn't there a 50 something car pile up on the autobahn in Germany recently with multiple fatalities? Wonder if they gonna change the laws after that.
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05:15pm 02/12/11 Permalink
for the insurance claim pave, the only reason you would do that, because to do so make no f*****g sense
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05:16pm 02/12/11 Permalink
That pileup was caused by fog, doubt they will change the rules because of that, they'll probably just add some when lights are flashing go "this" speed.
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05:24pm 02/12/11 Permalink
how though?
if you're going straight through the round about you should only indicate when you're about to exit all you're doing is confusing other people by making them think you're going to go right |
05:24pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Oh you meant when they are going straight ahead, yeah that pisses me off, but not indicating when they exit pisses me off more on some roundabouts (when they could be going right or going right around).
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05:27pm 02/12/11 Permalink
You must understand this is not a battle of speed vs other driving factors. let me explain; it makes no sense to debate whether something is nature vs nurture, because nature and nurture -interact- with one another. similarly speed affects (interacts with) all driving factors to one extent or another.
In a sense speed limits are mostly there for the lowest common denominators in society. People can be inattentive, drink drive, drive angry, do all sorts of stupid s*** or can just be horrible drivers. speed limits are determined by civil engis to compensate for not only road hazards and different driving conditions, but also their possible effects on bad drivers. IMO maybe in 30-50 years when all cars across Aus have improved easability of driving and safe ratings, or when they change roadworthies to include stuff like higher minimum breaking ability and other safety stuff, they will increase the speed limits, But until then every K over is a killer, IN THE SENSE THAT those K's interact with all other driving factors to a lesser or greater extent. |
05:38pm 02/12/11 Permalink
provide stats to back that up coz imo it's totally debatable. imo if everyone drove 1kph over each posted limit i doubt there would be a noticeable difference in the accident rate.I never said if everyone drove 1kph over the posted limit. I said if "everyone drove 1km/h faster everywhere", faster than they already do. As in, the travelling speeds of every vehicle nationally being increased by an extra 1km/h. As I said, it's all in the context of the statement. My preferred solution would be to increase automated speed limit enforcement. The current situation is stupid, too many people speed (often recklessly and dangerously) everywhere else and slow down when they see a cop car in the distance or when they know there's a posted speed camera. To combat the revenue raising element for the police, have any amount of a certain threshold of the funds instead go into some form of sovereign wealth fund for the country, basically a tax on those that don't want to operate within the rules. I do agree that the posted limits in certain places aren't always perfect, the lines do have to be drawn somewhere to strike the right balance between efficiency and safety. |
05:58pm 02/12/11 Permalink
the easy of driving is part of the problem,
the easier something is to do, the more people are able to do it, more people driving on the road, changes the required skills, (there is a massive difference in skills required for city driving verses country driving, verse long distance driving) very little skill is required in driving on a straight road at 100km, there isn't a massive increase of skills required to add corners, however there are many people that clearly have issues doing minor things on the road, yet they are legally there. the problems that lead to those peoples "issues" stem from a number of places and reasons, ranging from they don't drive often and they have never been in that area in that car before, to the people or dont have a f*****g clue what is going on around them. very very very little time is giving to teaching people road craft, as the rules are seemly more important, and nothing is done to teach people car craft, yet even the basic Q-ride allocates a good portion to how the bike works and how to handle it, how to brake, and how to ride by taking the other road users actions into account and i dont think Q-ride covers enough, and sure as s*** people aren't taught enough about the car, let alone how to use the car before driving cars and their safety is only a minor factor, sure it is easy to blame the cars, but a thirty year old car driven by an aware moderately trained driver is less of a risk on the road than someone who is able to do the bare minimum to pass the current testing system |
06:00pm 02/12/11 Permalink
The other thing is, no matter how difficult you make it to reach the bare minimum of a drivers test, there's always going to be licensed drivers out there that are worse due to any number of impairments, think tiredness, emotional issues, medical issues, drunk drivers, drug drivers, not all of these can be easily tested and enforced.
The lowest common denominator for posted speed limits has to take these into consideration. |
06:05pm 02/12/11 Permalink
I currently live in the uk and do 100mph (160kph) every day on the way to work. The limit is 70mph but the cops aren't too fussed and realise that on a 3 / 4 lane motorway in the inside lane this isn't a problem. I haven't magically died like the aust government would have you believe.
I have noticed that European drivers in general are a lot more aware of cars that are going quicker and get out of the way accordingly. They seem a lot more aware of what's happening around them rather than just focussing on the speed limit regardless of what others are doing. It's mind numbingly boring coming back to australia and driving at 110. |
06:06pm 02/12/11 Permalink
oh, i agree with that dan, however, those impairments, apply to all current drivers
but by increasing the standard of drivers there will be a flow on effect, a s***, ill trained driver that is impaired is more of a risk than a okay, well trained driver that is impaired |
06:10pm 02/12/11 Permalink
you said 'permitted to drive 1k faster' - the permitted part tends to imply 1k faster than the sanctioned speed limit imo
regardless, how does driving 1km/h faster than you are, mean there will be more accidents? |
06:18pm 02/12/11 Permalink
So what would be a better solution to the speed "issue"?Get over it and just do the speed limit? It's only an "issue" because you make it one. |
06:20pm 02/12/11 Permalink
regardless, how does driving 1km/h faster than you are, mean there will be more accidents?Not just you,,everyone. the 'you' part, tends to imply just one person with the average driving ability. If everyone is doing 1km/h more that increases the probability that an accident that would have otherwise been avoided is no longer avoided. |
06:26pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Get over it and just do the speed limit? My main issue is with the fact that people blame speed for everything that happens on the road, yet are totally oblivious to plenty of other factors that have a far worse impact on our road safety than said speed. Like I said before, people who complain about people going fast are usually the biggest culprits in doing any number of other dangerous things. |
06:34pm 02/12/11 Permalink
^, speed is also a factor, in poor weather accidents, however if a car has balding tyres (yet legal) and the road is wet, and the posted speed limit is 60, yet the crash happened at 50, guess what, speed cause it, but lowering the limit wouldn't have prevented it!
however wouldn't driver awareness and proper maintenance, and learning correct car control prevented this? |
06:37pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Can't wait until the human element is removed from cars. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mLlzOnL7nec/RyN5zzvsXKI/AAAAAAAABgQ/6tG7-CMevhs/s400/johnny-cab.jpg ? |
06:39pm 02/12/11 Permalink
dan: given that we're obviously not talking about an average speed of 0km/h increasing to 1km/h, how does increasing speed by 1km/h increase the probability of more accidents?
how is it that you think an accident would otherwise have been avoided if the involved parties were doing 1km/h less - why do you think adding 1km/h or even some other similar arbitrary amount, means that the chances of an accident go up? I'm hoping it's from some pretty solid research, and not just believing propaganda put out by the police and government in road safety advertising campaigns - cos as usual, there's no reason at all to assume their motivation is the result of impartial science |
07:11pm 02/12/11 Permalink
I tell you what's pure stupidity is those people who slow down to 1km/hr while turning off a 60km/hr road. W..T..F. That sort of thing causes pile ups.
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07:25pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Just heard an ambulance didn't think too much of it, went to go to Bottleshop and there was a P Plater which appears to have rolled a pedestrian at the lights before the main intersection in Sunnybank (across from school). Dunno if pedestrian bolted out of turn (possible) or P plater ran lights (also possible).
Forensics there taking pictures and someones vegetables all over the road Don't think that the pedestrian is walking away breathing :( |
07:30pm 02/12/11 Permalink
The problem with our roads is that people think they are 'better than the rules', as evidenced by this thread.
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07:38pm 02/12/11 Permalink
No one gave a s*** if you did 180 on a deserted highway at 3am ten years ago, or did a massive burnout at the front of cavil ave,
now if you do 110 in a 110 zone you have people boxing you in because their speedo says they are doing 110 but are infact doing 103, you have people sticking in the right hand lane blocking everyone from overtaking, you have people towing caravans doing 70 in a 90 zone until you get to an overtaking lane then suddenly they can do 110, 120, 130 (watch their exhaust as they plant their foot), you get people merging at the last possible second because you let a person in, that must mean you'll let 2,3,4 people in when they try to merge into the side of you, you get people who see a police car coming or a van on the side of the road slam their brakes on and do 50 in a 70 zone for a km, you get people exiting from the second or even third lane of a highway without indicating, no one can relax and just cruise on by anymore while being considerate of other people. I was in the spare car today a 1977 Volvo which is a f*****g tank, in a low speed crash it will chew your car to bits (in a high speed crash it will tear me apart, even though it actually has crumple zones) so don't pull out infront of me at a roundabout when there isn't any room for you to go, my brakes are bloody brilliant but I don't like testing them all the time. |
07:52pm 02/12/11 Permalink
the rules are fine, however the enforcement and reasons given for some enforcement methods are the issues imo
also there will be debates regarding what training might be needed, most people can agree that more, better training is needed to reduce the road toll (also speed limits sort of only work for those that obey it, a traffic camera can only take a photo, a police officer can react) |
07:53pm 02/12/11 Permalink
The lowest common denominator for posted speed limits has to take these into consideration. Nah, it's not just lowest common denominator, or even engineering requirements for corners/cambers etc. Sometimes, maybe not often but certainly enough to notice, speed limits are set at an arbitrary low speed because of political backing. More often than not as a direct result of some uppity person/group in the community. I would be all for it if it was just based off numbers are outcomes. Sadly it's emotional, political or personal clout that can affect the posted speed. |
07:53pm 02/12/11 Permalink
how is it that you think an accident would otherwise have been avoided if the involved parties were doing 1km/h lessThere's no need for "proven science", it's just simple maths. If you increase the speed people are travelling at, it increases the distanced required to stop and decreases the time they have to react. As insignificant as 1km'h might seem to a single driver, in aggregate it still equates to an overall greater probability of an accident occurring. Sometimes, maybe not often but certainly enough to notice, speed limits are set at an arbitrary low speed because of political backing. More often than not as a direct result of some uppity person/group in the community.Yeah, that's definitely a problem that's hard to solve :/ |
07:55pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Here's a good article:
http://www.hwysafety.com/hwy_montana_2001.htm Speed Kills! 4. With the expectation of higher speed when there was no daytime limit, Montana’s seat belt usage was well above the national average on its highways without a primary law, lane and road courtesy increased, speeds remained relatively stable and fatal accidents dropped to a modern low. After the new limits, fatal accidents climbed to a modern high on these classifications of highway, road courtesy decreased and flow conflict accidents rose again. Also, drivers are genuinely much more alert, courteous and generally safer when driving on the Autobahns over here in Germany. |
07:57pm 02/12/11 Permalink
What are your thoughts on the matter? Is it really speed? Is it driver training? Is it infrastructure? Should speed limits be reviewed? I don't know what highway or roads you drive on but the ones I navigate every day on the way to work are full of potholes, uneven surfaces and sloppy patch work that needs re-doing every year, or every time it rains. There's no way in hell I'd want to go any faster on any of them. I s*** you not, driving on a dirt road would be smoother. It's like we're back in ye olde england, back to the colony with cobbled roads. |
08:15pm 02/12/11 Permalink
Increase the speed limit and natural selection will take it course
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09:05pm 02/12/11 Permalink
whats with spazzies driving?
old people, women, people who drive automatics? id prefer none of them on my roads. |
09:11pm 02/12/11 Permalink
spook, I feel the same about people who lean forward, mouth open and that ohhhh, look on their face,
f*** if driving is so damn hard, dont |
10:29pm 02/12/11 Permalink
I'm loling at s*** drivers all day now that I'm back at Post for xmas, it's amazing how many spastics you encounter when you're on the road for 8 hours.
Today I saw a car on Morayfield road indicate left to change into the right lane, ended up next to them at the lights, an asian lady. Also saw a guy on Sandgate road in a Yaris, left lane, decided to overtake in the far left ending/merging lane (~200m long) at literally 100km/hr despite the right lane being completely clear... that one was truly mind boggling. |
10:39pm 02/12/11 Permalink
We've just increased a ton of our major roads around austin to 120km/h .. fricken sweet. Most speed limits here are slightly hire than their equivalent back home ... I'll probababy lose my license when I eventually move back :)
I can drive 90% of austin at 80km/h.... is pretty sweet. |
12:57am 03/12/11 Permalink
using the left lane for overtaking is my pet peeve, I just don't let people in if they do it
had some slut in a 30 year old falcon try it the other day, her lane ended she tried for so long, I didn't even think about letting her in The mole kept going up my left hand side driving in the space between the actual lane beside me and the grassy strip off to the side (no cement gutter) boggles my mind how these people don't just go "oops I guess I tried to be a c*** but it didn't work, so i'll back off and learn my place" but actually get on their horn and scream abuse at someone who was in the right |
01:10am 03/12/11 Permalink
^^ I love it how some wanker will cut in front of me when there's barely enough room, so I look in my rear view mirror and there's like no cars at all behind me. What's with some people that just HAVE to be in front?
I was at the lights the other day and this knob in an xr6 turbo was next to me on the left lane that ended. When the lights went green I took off at my usual pace which is moderate, in order to get away so more cars can get through (what's with people taking off slow only letting one or two other cars through the lights?) but in no way was I even trying to race him but I guess he figured oh s*** little car took off faster than I expected and my lane is ending. What's he do? Nails ii & pings off the limiter in order to get in front. If I was in the evo I'd have given him a reason to hit the limiter, alas it was Corolla weather (out of fuel :p) |
01:43am 03/12/11 Permalink
There's no need for "proven science", it's just simple maths. If you increase the speed people are travelling at, it increases the distanced required to stop and decreases the time they have to react. As insignificant as 1km'h might seem to a single driver, in aggregate it still equates to an overall greater probability of an accident occurring.yeh I'm not sure if that's true driving at faster speeds doesn't necessarily create more situations where, needing to stop in the shortest possible distance, is required to avoid an accident driving at faster speeds doesn't necessarily mean that when a potential collision course occurs, that you can't stop in time there's nothing simple at all about the maths behind all of the variables when a collision occurs |
02:35am 04/12/11 Permalink
Dan, I understand the thinking behind "if speed kills, then increase the speed and more accidents will happen, with more deaths"
however there are many problems with this, first of, there is no really proof that going faster than the posted speed limit (yet going no faster than the cars limit, roads limit, and environments limit) is more risky the NT has had more accidents after they lower/set a speed limit on stuat, also, how accidents causes are assigned, if on a highway with a posted limited 110, in the pouring rain, with loads of standing water on the road, now if the driver set cruise control at 90kph, and the car aquaplanes off the road and into a pole, the traffic report will report that speed was the cause, now driver training, and reading the cars' user manual would tell you that using cruise control in the wet is not good, first of all, you can't feel the car, you wouldn't feel it "slip" I would put the cause down to poor driving, like wise, if a car crashes at 120, in a 60 zone, speed is a factor, now the speed limits and cameras are placed according this data, so if every time it rains, and every time a car comes off due to "speed" instead of new drainage, a different road surface, or an ad campaign about driving to the weather and using the cars features properly we get a speed camera |
11:55am 04/12/11 Permalink
Teq, you know it's 100% Legal to overtake someone by driving in the left lane, right?
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11:58am 04/12/11 Permalink
Scooter, you know that someone in the left lane, whose lane is ending (dotted white lines), has to give way to the person on their right, regardless of whether they are in front or behind the car to their right?
edit: I re-read my previous post, I guess I should clarify, I mean overtaking on the left when the left lane is only just created to let people in from the side. eg, not just a two lane road - but a road that is normally 1 lane and a smaller lane is created after a set of lights only to end almost immediately |
12:38pm 04/12/11 Permalink
this is why no one seems to be able to merge...
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12:40pm 04/12/11 Permalink
using the left lane for overtaking is my pet peeve, I just don't let people in if they do itTeq have you ever been on the left lane that's about to end and someone has actually given you way to merge? you know, because of built up traffic and all? or do you just sit there like a d******* waiting in the left lane for every car to pass you then merge when the road is clear? unless you're some master left lane ending identifier and always happen to merge KM's before the left lane ends. You make it sound like it's a problem when all it comes down to is common courtesy. If you get off your hi |
12:53pm 04/12/11 Permalink
fixah, I remember a time when everyone used to give way to me,
I would put the indicator on, and they would make room for me, then I sold my 81 volvo, and the roads got nasty |
01:00pm 04/12/11 Permalink
Yeah, then I read/you wrote your post wrong.
Still, I'll let them in unless they pulled out from behind me to scoot up past me. If they are in that lane from an on-ramp, or from turning in from a side road etc I'll happily let them slide in front of me. Common sense and courtesy IMO. If they did pull out from behind me, into a lane they know was ending in 100m to try make it 2-3 cars in front, I'll just as happily let them drive themselves off the road rather than trying to merge into my 4WD though, which I think is what you're getting at. |
01:01pm 04/12/11 Permalink
I have no problems letting people in and i've rarely had any problems with people letting me in. I think you'd be just as much as a c*** boxing in the person trying to merge as the person trying to 'jump the queue'. Not everyone is trying to jump the queue either, it depends on traffic conditions. Except here we have teq who seems to think that anyone who tries to merge from an ending left lane is a violator of his elite driver status & personal street cred and wants to send out a message to all left lane ending mergers by causing ripples on QLD roads like a gaping a******.
(((((O))))) |
01:19pm 04/12/11 Permalink
I think I can safely assume that someone pulling out from behind me, accelerating hard and immediately putting their right blinker, is someone trying to jump the queue. I'd have no remorse being a d*** towards said person.
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01:31pm 04/12/11 Permalink
I'll just as happily let them drive themselves off the road rather than trying to merge into my 4WD though, which I think is what you're getting at. then insurance gets into it and the person who's car is in front wins.... and you in your big 4wd lose |
01:35pm 04/12/11 Permalink
He's talking about the lane's that start just before a traffic light and end just after it, not a merging lane, a lane purely for overtaking, which is great when there is a bus or truck that pulls into it, lets everyone pass and carries on, but gets full up with people who jump in it to get one person infront, I hate those c***'s too.
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01:35pm 04/12/11 Permalink
Nah Sc00bs, as Teq said, if they have a Give Way dotted line, they have to give way to the flowing traffic, weather they're in front or not.
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02:58pm 04/12/11 Permalink
Still, I'll let them in unless they pulled out from behind me to scoot up past me. hallelujah! this is what I meant :) I have no problems letting people in and i've rarely had any problems with people letting me in. I think you'd be just as much as a c*** boxing in the person trying to merge as the person trying to 'jump the queue'. Not everyone is trying to jump the queue either, it depends on traffic conditions. Except here we have teq who seems to think that anyone who tries to merge from an ending left lane is a violator of his elite driver status & personal street cred and wants to send out a message to all left lane ending mergers by causing ripples on QLD roads like a gaping a******. wat? I don't even .. you're the one making what I do seem like a big deal, I'm the guy just chilling in my car driving and following the law to the letter then insurance gets into it and the person who's car is in front wins.... Incorrect! I have successfully argued this in court in the past. At the end of the day, I drive a s***box that probably weighs at least twice as much as your car (statistically speaking), parts are cheap and my family is in the paint & panel repair business it is literally nothing to me if you side swipe me when you're in the wrong, there's a good chance my car is fixed by the end of the week, then I just wait for your cheque to come in and I go buy myself some new toys with it because I didn't pay anything like the retail cost of repairing the car drive like a f***head, expect me to treat you like a f***head. |
04:28pm 04/12/11 Permalink
guy just chilling in my car driving and following the law to the letterHow many times have you lost your license again? |
04:58pm 04/12/11 Permalink
How many times have you lost your license again?S***, so more than once? some traffic law abiding citizen you are. |
05:32pm 04/12/11 Permalink
More driver training, so many people just can't use a round-a-bout.
I hate people who don't indicate people who sit in the right lane not overtaking b****** putting on makeup at intersections People who fail to get to 100/110kph before hitting the highway on the on-ramp. I lol at people who speed past me, then get stuck at the next set of lights, they normally have to stop completely while I'll just cruise past as they go green. |
06:07pm 04/12/11 Permalink
then I just wait for your cheque to come in and I go buy myself some new toys with it because I didn't pay anything like the retail cost of repairing the car I'm intrigued by this - it sounds very scandalous indeed! After receiving the nominal 'retail' moneys from the at fault party's insurance company, your family contacts pass on the savings to you in the form of cash moneys by securing cheaper than nominal 'retail' parts and labour!??! :) |
07:34pm 04/12/11 Permalink
family owned shop ^
like any insurance claim you just submit your quotes and they pick the best one. just because it's a family job doesn't mean the insurance claim should cost the insurer less, like anything they will want multiple quotes and we just make sure we submit the best quote How many times have you lost your license again? we're talking about merging, I've only ever lost points for driving too awesomely |
09:10pm 04/12/11 Permalink
Scooter, you know that someone in the left lane, whose lane is ending (dotted white lines), has to give way to the person on their right, regardless of whether they are in front or behind the car to their right? This only applies to dotted lines though, if there's no lines at all then the one ahead gets right of way. For anyone who may think to try this on a non-dotted road. http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queensland-Road-Rules/Road-rules-refresher/Merging.aspx we're talking about merging, I've only ever lost points for driving too awesomely same. pfft 50 zone, as if 70 isn't safe. People who fail to get to 100/110kph before hitting the highway on the on-ramp.Some onramps aren't long enough for smaller cars to get up to 100. |
09:21pm 04/12/11 Permalink
family owned shop ^ like any insurance claim you just submit your quotes and they pick the best one. just because it's a family job doesn't mean the insurance claim should cost the insurer less, like anything they will want multiple quotes and we just make sure we submit the best quote Oh I get it now - what a lovely family to pass on the savings to you and how ingenious of you all! :) |
09:26pm 04/12/11 Permalink
Some onramps aren't long enough for smaller cars to get up to 100. The on ramp at Sandgate or the one at Maryborough suck in a slower car, too short to get up to speed (even in the Jag or Calais I'd only just get to the limit) and you can't get a good luck at traffic on the mwy. Also I'm sick of all the view infringing s*** they have growing everywhere. I mean on traffic islands, can't they leave a couple of meters gap, so you can see the road you're about to go on (roundabouts especially). |
07:33am 05/12/11 Permalink
drivers like teq are everything thats wrong with the roads today
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07:39am 05/12/11 Permalink
I can only assume you're the kind of driver who I don't let in Spook, meaning you're the actual problem
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09:34am 05/12/11 Permalink
no, as ive got nothing to prove, im the most courteous driver you'll ever see on the road.
i let people in, EVEN IF THEY ARE IN THE WRONG. i look forward to your post from hospital after you decide to f*** with a methhead 4 days into his bender and he just dont give no f**** and stabs you or rams you off the road when he tries to cut in front of you and you block him on your bizaro principles |
10:56am 05/12/11 Permalink
After seeing traffic in an Asian country (Taiwan), Brisbane drivers f*****g suck at being courteous. I've never seen so much traffic chaos work as well as it did there.
Edit: http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/numberspop_110411/bp1.jpg Look at this s***, how the f*** can that many people on the road at the same time and not just explode into fireballs? last edited by scuzzy at 11:05:41 05/Dec/11 |
11:01am 05/12/11 Permalink
yeah people f*** up when driving so i don't see the point in making the situation worse, or dangerous
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11:02am 05/12/11 Permalink
the person abiding by the rules is not the problem, I'm just following the law as it is written.
He knows what he is doing is wrong, I know it, he might not expect me to ignore his request to push in front, but that doesn't make it my fault when he hits me :) the problem is; a) people who are actually doing it and/or b) people who let these people get away with it, meaning they'll just keep doing it yeah people f*** up when driving so i don't see the point in making the situation worse, or dangerous The law says these people should stop, wait for a gap, then proceed once it's safe & clear. They are the ones making the situation dangerous by ignoring the rules, not the person who ignores their indicator because they're douchebags (even though yes, I know that none of these wankers follow this rule) pretty typical of spook to have a completely backwards view of the situation |
11:10am 05/12/11 Permalink
we're talking about merging, I've only ever lost points for driving too awesomelyYou sound like the type of driver who will harp on about how you're such an awesome upstanding model driver but only when the laws suit yourself. So since teq has a stubborn, egotistical 'i'm always right' mentality, naturally he will get his panties tied up in a knot when someone tries merge in front of him, but then when you ask him about his loss of license due to speeding and who know what else he'll tell you some s*** like "we're only talking about merging here, because that's my speciality". I know your car and your number plates teq, i can't wait for the day to merge in front of you and moon you my hairy arab ass. |
11:19am 05/12/11 Permalink
i let people in, EVEN IF THEY ARE IN THE WRONG pussy |
11:30am 05/12/11 Permalink
You better believe I use the law to my benefit whenever possible
I have absolutely no leg to stand on as far as my license suspensions go, I speed - everywhere, all the time I'm going to keep doing it too, because it's such a minor thing I just don't care
I let people merge in front of my all the time, every day in fact - actually I wouldn't even call it "letting them merge" because it's not my decision to let them in or not, if they have the right according to the law, I don't have a problem with it at all? It's people who undertake in order to skip 2 or 3 cars ahead in the queue, they're breaking the law and they're the only people we're talking about here. I know your car and your number plates teq I've had 4 new cars since the Hilux, it's pretty rare that I keep a car longer than 6 - 12 months you'd be just another bug under my wheels if you tried it anyway, I don't discriminate when it comes to treating wankers how they deserve to be treated ;) |
11:36am 05/12/11 Permalink
i let people in, EVEN IF THEY ARE IN THE WRONG I let ONE in, the person putting their foot to the floor behind me and ends up right next to me (without me accelerating or braking, just leaving a gap for ONE car) can chew my left testicle. |
11:37am 05/12/11 Permalink
I'm going to keep doing it too, because it's such a minor thing I just don't careyou murderer!!1one |
11:40am 05/12/11 Permalink
I'm the guy just chilling in my car driving and following the law to the letterteq - 2011 Then this: I have absolutely no leg to stand on as far as my license suspensions go, I speed - everywhere, all the timeteq - 2011 So either you're the perfect role model for the Australian Driver following every law to the letter who we should all look up to OR you're just another careless reving bogan bully with little regard for the law and others. Which one is it? (Something tells me you're the latter but either way you speak s***). |
11:43am 05/12/11 Permalink
no, as ive got nothing to prove, im the most courteous driver you'll ever see on the road. i let people in, EVEN IF THEY ARE IN THE WRONG. i look forward to your post from hospital after you decide to f*** with a methhead 4 days into his bender and he just dont give no f**** and stabs you or rams you off the road when he tries to cut in front of you and you block him on your bizaro principles Oh, ain't that the truth! I guess at the end of the day, any accident is far worse than no accident at any given point in time in any scenario, so according to that relatively simplistic logic you would assume that accident avoidance at all costs would be the intelligent thing to do at all times, regardless of fault/political correctness/legality. Unless of course you stand to accumulate goods as a repercussion of an accident :P *edit: fixed typo yo* last edited by Jc_23 at 11:49:23 05/Dec/11 |
11:46am 05/12/11 Permalink
I know this is hard for you to follow, but try some context;
When I'm in traffic, blocking some c*** sucker from merging, how do you think I could be speeding at the same time? |
11:47am 05/12/11 Permalink
No, because your so anal about people merging in front of you your excuse for not letting people in is that you're following the law to the letter and they are not . At the same time you proudly admit you break the law by speeding everywhere. Do you see how you can no longer use the law as an excuse for yourself when someone is trying merge in front of you? you're not the perfect driver and you're only using that excuse to suit your aggressive bogan bully behaviour. All you have to do is put your ego to the side for a second and you'd be set to becoming a normal driver.
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12:04pm 05/12/11 Permalink
nope, everyone speeds
not everyone acts the fool and pushes in front to move 1 or 2 cars ahead also speeding doesn't impact anyone else, these people are trying to make me fractions of a second later than I otherwise would have been I am a normal driver, this is the only thing I stand up against when I'm driving, believe me I let a lot of other s*** go because I can't be bothered, this is just my pet peeve as I first mentioned I like how I'm the one in the right but you're defending their behavior, you must big a huge douche |
12:13pm 05/12/11 Permalink
nope, everyone speedsYou are not everyone not everyone acts the fool and pushes in front to move 1 or 2 cars aheadSo for the few out of 10's of thousands that don't you'd rather box them in, tail gate the car in front of you and run them off the road? what are you f*****g Judge Dread of QLD roads? also speeding doesn't impact anyone elseWhat on earth could you say to this other than lol? I am a normal driver, this is the only thing I stand up against when I'm driving, believe me I let a lot of other s*** go because I can't be bothered, this is just my pet peeve as I first mentionedWell maybe you should grow a brain and let go of your pet peeve because you're not the only one using public roads. Imagine if we all had our own pet peeves like our friendly driver teq here, it'd be a mental institution on wheels. I like how I'm the one in the right but you're defending their behavior, you must big a huge doucheI'm not defending their behaviour i'm just pointing out your hypocrisy, that's all. I'm not the perfect driver by any means but I don't go claiming i follow certain laws to the letter like i'm some law abiding driver whilst completely dismissing other laws (as critical as speeding). |
12:33pm 05/12/11 Permalink
You are not everyone I don't shoot up the left lane trying to push in like a f***wit So for the few out of thousands that don't you'd rather box them in, tail gate the car in front of you and run them off the road? what are you f*****g Judge Dread of QLD roads? I don't do anything like that, they are either ignorant of the merge rules and they learn their place, or they escalate it beacuse they are pissed that someone didn't just bow to their bulls*** All I do is keep driving, I don't leave a gap for them to get in, that's perfectly normal behavior, if they chose to escalate it that is their choice What on earth could you say to this other than lol? until my speeding impacts (no pun intended) someone, you don't need to say anything -- because I'm right Well maybe you should grow a brain and let go of your pet peeve because you're not the only one using public roads. Imagine if we all had our own pet peeves like our friendly driver teq here, it'd be a mental institution on wheels. it doesn't even enter into my daily life, all I do is keep on driving like normal when these people try and push in 99.99% of them realise what is going on, stop and wait like good little b****** it's the 0.01%, more like 1 in a few million, that will get their panties in a knot even though they're in the wrong I'm not defending their behaviour i'm just pointing out your hypocrisy, that's all. I'm not the perfect driver by any means but I don't go claiming i follow certain laws to the letter whilst completely dismissing other laws (as critical as speeding). you're saying what I'm doing is wrong and I should just bend over and let them in, which would only serve to justify their behavior |
12:45pm 05/12/11 Permalink
Mission, I do. The right lane is for overtaking, not doing the same speed as the guy to the left of you.
I wouldn't be upset with a guy doing 100 on a single lane 100 road though. Unless he speeds up to 105 / 110 when there is an overtaking lane, then I would be upset, but only because they're a f***wit. |
01:09pm 05/12/11 Permalink
well in those cases the person in the right lane doing 100 is breaking the law too, but I don't get s***** other than wishing that a cop would pull him up for sitting in that lane
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01:10pm 05/12/11 Permalink
soz i deleted my post because i cbf.
But given that they are doing the speed limit you shouldn't be overtaking them, therefore it shouldn't worry you :) |
01:11pm 05/12/11 Permalink
You are not everyone I don't shoot up the left lane trying to push in like a f***witwtf does that have anything to do with what i said? lol, or is just your line by line filler response? you're saying what I'm doing is wrong and I should just bend over and let them in, which would only serve to justify their behaviorThat's exactly what I'm talking about. In your mind you're thinking you're being bent over and screwed over and the level of respect that you demand as a driver has been tarnished. Clearly you have your mind set out to cause ripples and teach this 0.01% of millions not to f*** with you on the roads because of your principles that no one gives a s*** about. I don't have much more to say than just get over yourself, mate. |
01:13pm 05/12/11 Permalink
But given that they are doing the speed limit you shouldn't be overtaking them, therefore it shouldn't worry you :) you're not allowed to sit in that lane regardless of what speed you're doing, it's purely for overtaking. wtf does that have anything to do with what i said? lol, or is just your line by line filler response? what does speeding have to do with merging? Clearly you have your mind set out to cause ripples and teach this 0.01% of millions not to f*** with you on the roads you're the one making it out like I go out of my way to put myself into this situation, everyone else can see it for what it is, it's just me not letting some a****** get away with being an a******. it's over as quickly as it begun if it happened in woolworths at the checkout line or in a car, makes no difference to me, I don't have to let people push in, so I don't. |
01:18pm 05/12/11 Permalink
I have a problem with people in the left lane being inconsistent.
Guys doing 80-90 in the left lane for several km's so I get into the right to overtake. Suddenly we're side by side both doing 100 and there's a line of people behind me obviously wanting to do 105-110 to overtake so it makes me look like the a******. Damn spastics that waver from 80 to 100 on a highway, pick a speed and stick with it. |
01:18pm 05/12/11 Permalink
Guys doing 80-90 in the left lane for several km's so I get into the right to overtake. Suddenly we're side by side both doing 100 and there's a line of people behind me obviously wanting to do 105-110 to overtake so it makes me look like the a******. That's what I was getting at.. What do you do then, slow down to move back in behind the car in the left lane? last edited by mission at 13:22:42 05/Dec/11 |
01:20pm 05/12/11 Permalink
You wouldn't need to worry in that situation if you were teq because you'd just speed up until you hit 180 in 3rd gear and blow your engine. That'll teach your engine not to f*** with you.
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01:24pm 05/12/11 Permalink
I'm nearly on the redline at 110km/hr in 5th gear, my new car doesn't go fast at all
I'm all about safety these days ;) |
01:35pm 05/12/11 Permalink
01:42pm 05/12/11 Permalink
I'm nearly on the redline at 110km/hr in 5th gear, my new car doesn't go fast at allXD |
01:51pm 05/12/11 Permalink
